"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes) 12/07/2016 at 01:24 • Filed to: None

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I saw arrival. I don’t get it. Well I got most of it but the husband part confused me.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Frank Grimes 12/07/2016 at 02:10

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BEST SPACE MOVIE SINCE SAVING PRIVATE RYAN

TheRealBicycleBuck > Frank Grimes 12/07/2016 at 03:52

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SPOILER ALERT

It’s a basic love story with a couple of twists, both hinging on the perception of time. Girl meets boy. Girl falls for boy. They get married and have a child who later dies of cancer.

The twists are that the girl didn’t meet the boy until the aliens arrived and she has no knowledge of either the boy or the daughter until she learns the alien language warping her perception of time so that she becomes aware of the future. With her new knowledge, she has to decide whether or not that is a future she wants.

It plays on themes of predestination versus choice.

DynamicWeight > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/07/2016 at 11:29

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Hmmm, you’re spot on except for

With her new knowledge, she has to decide whether or not that is a future she wants.

She doesn’t get a decision, she learns what the future will be and then learns to enjoy the moment even knowing there is pain after.

TheRealBicycleBuck > DynamicWeight 12/07/2016 at 11:38

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Recall the moment in the dialog when she asks her love interest if he knew what the future held, would he change it? It’s an indication that the future is mutable and she must decide how things will play out. Thus the last line of my post about predestination versus choice.

DynamicWeight > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/07/2016 at 13:37

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Hmmm, I interpreted that as a rhetorical question. The obvious (in my mind) answer being “No, I wouldn’t give up the time I had with my child for anything”

TheRealBicycleBuck > DynamicWeight 12/07/2016 at 13:55

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I suggest there is a clear difference between what we would choose to do versus what we are destined to do. Even being able to ask the question eliminates the idea of destiny, don’t you think?

What if she had explained their future together to the guy? Would he have had a choice? How would his choice have affected her own understanding of the future? Once she teaches other people to understand the alien language and they begin to see the future, will everyone see the same future? If so, that would indicate predestination rules their universe and they are nothing more than cogs in the gearbox. If not, then free choice reigns and the future is not set.

The other option would be the Dr. Who perspective wherein there are points in time where events are fixed and cannot be changed . Between those points, events are mutable. This seems as improbable as the other perspectives in which destiny is fixed.

DynamicWeight > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/07/2016 at 15:35

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Whether I believe in destiny or not is irrelevant to how the movie has portrayed time and choice. Never did the movie portray a perceived future that was then changed through choice. In fact, the very fact that you can perceive the future by thinking about it, indicates that, in the universe in which the movie takes place, we are simply cogs in a machine and our choice can be predetermined. Otherwise you could not simply think about the future, since people choices would constantly be changing it.

The aliens are capable of looking 3,000 (5,000? I can’t remember) years into the future to see interactions they have with man. There is no way they would be able to do this if choice could change things.

As to my own thoughts: At the most basic level I am unsure. In the same way Descartes was unsure if some demon was not simply simulating his life (brain in a box), I am unsure if I have free will or not, and I don’t think being able to ask the question proves that I have it. It may simply be that that’s how the universe works. That eventually the thing which I see as myself will exist, and then question it’s own volition during it’s existence. But that thinking has no bearing on day to day life so I simply accept my free will as practically true since to me it seems to be (even if it may not be).

Frank Grimes > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/07/2016 at 17:51

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This is what I thought was going on but it wasn’t really clear that very early in the movie that her dreams visions or memories never actually happened yet.

How is earth going to save the heptapods in 3k years?
Was the husband who left her the same guy she met when meeting the aliens the jeremy renner character?
Why did costello just suddenly be in “death process” or whatever?

The movie was kinda wierd how things were never explained very well and the vagueness of the death of one of the heptapods didn’t make sense and didn’t seem to have a point.

JJG83 > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/10/2016 at 21:43

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I read it a bit differently, that they were predestined to do these things, though it may seem like a choice at the time. Like, when you know all the outcomes, this is the choice you’re going to make, even though it feels shitty when you do it. She knows that the relationship will end badly, but she thinks a divorce and her kid’s death is worth the pain for knowing her daughter. Essentially. when you can take the long view, that was the best possible choice.

For example, I think back to my first girlfriend. I was utterly devoted to her at the time, and when she broke up with me, it was terrible. Right then and there, if you’d been the devil and we were at a crossroads, I would have sold my soul in an instant. But now I’m about twenty years down the road, and I realize, had I stayed with her, I would have missed out on so many better things. With the benefit of hindsight, you can make your favorite overall choice, even though in the instant it blows.